Although, I imagine what passes for Irish Protestant culture in Jamie's eyes differs from mine a tad.
His appears to be wrapped in a Union Flag.
So, what passed for Irish/Ulster Protestant culture before
there were such things as the Union Flag/Union, before the paramilitaries,
before KTP bands, before the ‘Loyal’ orders or the 12th?
Did we live in some sort of cultural cocoon awaiting the day
when we would have something to celebrate or did we have other things to be
getting on with?
So I had a dig:
Of course I had a rough idea about this topic before my
half-assed search, my grandparents often spoke of dances down at the Orange
hall and they didn’t mean the modern version that sometimes includes some
god-awful combo of loyalist anthems, country music and dance (would make yer
ears bleed, jeez!).
They were referring to the days of when people would attend
social dances at orange halls and dance till daybreak to the music of a
melodeon or a fiddle or such like.My other Granda (a B Special) and his brothers (also B specials) played a full range of folk instruments in their village hall, including some instruments that would now be considered ‘suspect’ or a bit ‘taigy’ e.g. the penny whistle (don’t laugh, you know some of the nutty wans would be offended at a display of something so ‘oirish’).
Fast forward a few decades and there’s hardly any evidence
of this.
It’s like there’s been some massive cultural brainwashing.
Many loyalists would be as blindly ignorant to such goings-on in local Orange halls as Germans neighbouring the various concentration camps of WWII: “what? We heard nahin’”.
Many loyalists would be as blindly ignorant to such goings-on in local Orange halls as Germans neighbouring the various concentration camps of WWII: “what? We heard nahin’”.
For anyone who wants a more qualified and in-depth look at
this story I recommend simply looking at some easy to obtain books on Ulster
folk culture.
I would like to name a book in particular but as this is a
blog for LAD then the more paranoid types would unfairly and uncritically
assume that the book is part of the great republican-nationalist-middleclass-Protestant-papist-commie-Chinese-conspiracy
and ignore the contents of this book much to their cultural peril.
So, sorry to be vague, but it’s the way of NI’s world: “you
have provided proof that we are wrong therefore you are the enemy…”
The author has been looking into this topic for decades and
has come up with examples of Orange folk music preservation that have
gobsmacked even myself e.g. post-partition Orange halls in County Down were
some of the best places to find examples of ‘unadulterated’ Irish folk music on
account of their immunity to the influences of the Gaelic League and the
Catholic Church (e.g. in the Republic there was a massive overhaul on folk
music & dancing and as such house dances were banned, instead dances had to
be held in parochial halls with ‘approved’ ceili music). |
| Orange Halls of Co Down - Home of the craic/crack? (Image kindly lent by 'How to Start a Fight in an Irish Bar' - http://howtostartafightinanirishbar.blogspot.com.au/2014_01_01_archive.html ) |
So, we have the scenario where pro-British Orangemen were
dancing to traditional Irish reels and jigs whilst Irish nationalists in
neighbouring villages were dancing very much to the tune of something recently
contrived, in essence their ‘traditional’ Irish folk dance and music was in
fact something very new.
Mental.
Being Northern Ireland I doubt if it was quite so clear cut
but it’s certainly something to think about.
So there you have it, Protestants used to sing, dance and
make merry in a very traditional Irish manner and latterly the ‘most’ Irish
manner (some still do, but it’s almost an ‘underground’ thing).
 |
| NOT the 12th |
So, what about the 12th
of July? Surely that’s been a part of culture for a long time?
Well, yes, but not from the word go as some would suggest.
As most of ye’s know, the Orange Order was formed in 1795 but
the celebrations of the British acquisition of the Dutch stock exchange
Williamite victory at the Boyne weren’t celebrated for a good while after that.
And even then it was mainly an Anglican affair.
Presbyterians took quite a while to get involved (mid 1800’s roughly speaking), most modern day Presbyterians tend to be quite forgetful regarding the topic of Britain’s attitude and behaviour towards them (Cromwell, the Penal Laws etc…).
Presbyterians took quite a while to get involved (mid 1800’s roughly speaking), most modern day Presbyterians tend to be quite forgetful regarding the topic of Britain’s attitude and behaviour towards them (Cromwell, the Penal Laws etc…).
Indeed, it’s not a stretch to say that many if not most
Presbyterians in the 1790’s were much more concerned with rebelling against the
crown than supporting it.
 |
| Apprentices: More 'FTP' than YTP? |
Apprentice Boys and
the Siege of Derry celebrations
Unbelievably (or believably if you have suffered enough of
my blogs) this event wasn’t much remembered for a long time and when it did
finally make an appearance the first celebrations involved members of the
Catholic Church.
Again, a large time gap between the actual event and the
celebrations becoming part of a tradition.
 |
| A respected flag. |
So, what about flags?
Well: Union Flag – Didn’t incorporate Ireland till the 1800’s and it was an unpopular move at the time, so that’s a couple of centuries of doing without it
Ulster Flag – Didn’t come into existence till the 20th century, so that is a relative newcomer.
Independence Flag
– Somehow this flag still makes its way into demonstrations by people eager to
show their loyalty to an institution that the flag purports to disengage from.
Go figure.
It’s like wearing an IBM or Coca-Cola T-shirt to a Marxist rally…
All in all, the culture of disgracing flags by attaching
them to lampposts with gay abandon is something relatively new and perhaps not essential to unionist or Protestant 'culture' after all?
 |
| A Gaelic game played by Prods?! Scotland you Lundy!!!!! |
Cammanachd
“what?”I said cammanachd.
The easiest way to describe it would be to think of the
Scottish game of Shinty.
Actually, cammanachd is the ancestor of both shinty and
hurling, arguably shinty would more closely resemble the old cammanachd on
account of its caiman (stick), the hurling stick came from a later summer version
of hurling (well, Cammanachd) that gradually
supplanted the older version.
Whilst hurling
sticks became synonymous with Irish nationalism old Cammanachd (or shinny as it
became known) limped on up north, mainly in the Protestant areas.
So there you have it, the last bastion of an old Gaelic game
was in Protestant Ulster. |
| The Old Firm be damned |
Other suspect activities that were part of Ulster Protestant
culture at various points of history include the following points; I’ll only
list them as I’ve ranted in greater detail about them previously.
·
Irish/Gaelic
·
Uilleann pipes – Once upon a time they were part
and parcel of the culture of ‘gentlemen pipers’ and clergymen
·
Crossroads dancing
 |
| WHAT?!!! |
·
Bodhran playing - Just like many Protestant folk
enthusiasts still do across the water in Scotland
·
Celebrating St Patrick’s day – Though some still
do celebrate it, more are starting to and I THINK there’s an annual Orange parade in Ballymena not to
mention Ian Paisley’s enthusiasm for St Pat (he opened his Martyr’s memorial
church on St Pat’s day).
It could be argued that those who are arguing most
passionately for the preservation of their culture are among the worst
offenders with regards to its decline and stagnation.
They have no respect for the old traditions of folk music
& dance (resembles ‘Irish’ culture too much), care not a jot for fiddles or
ballads, think of the Gaelic languages as ‘foreign’ (despite a tractor trailer
load of evidence to the contrary) and would sooner stuff their ears with wax
rather than listen to ‘fiddledy dee’ music (unless they’re in Scotland).
 |
| Irish music - Taigy (?) |
They’re seemingly only interested in preserving their mutant
version of Britishness which is not recognised by the majority of folks living
in Britain.
 |
| Scottish music - Not Taigy (?) |
If they had kept up the dancing and fiddling with the
enthusiasm they have for marching then perhaps Ulster folk music would not be
so ‘Oirish’?
Loyalists and indeed some unionists despise what they see as
Irish culture but fail to realise that they are partly responsible for its
current incarnation having opted out of its development.
It’s a sad irony for them that Northern Ireland would
perhaps be even more culturally detached from the South than it is now had
Loyalism not turned its back on its Irish culture.
I’d ask what would happen if loyalism and Orangeism were to
re-embrace their lost culture, alas I think I know the answer:
People would see them as ‘Irish’, a price too great for some
to pay.
Tragic.
 |
| Remember kids, if you're not loyal enough you'll turn into this |
My grandfather was a Catholic, from the Short Strand and played the bagpipes, wore a kilt and the whole shebang.
ReplyDeleteUlster is a melting pot of culture, but one culture seems to usurp all others, rewriting history. The fact is Catholics and Protestants shared the same culture, just not the same faith, and many spoke the local lingo before the British stamped down on it (with Catholics and Presbyterians at the front of that stampede).
Many would agree, Orangeism is anti-catholic and masonic - to the exclusion of others not in the order. A lot of it is fairly placated across Ulster, especially on border counties, it's tolerated but in Belfast it's being used as part of a 'culture war', which is of their own making, defiantly running roughshod over the rest. The sheer volume of marches, past areas were they're not welcome is evidence of this.
A religious and cultural organisation which uses the stage to promote politics, in culture, in language, in identity and faith. It's role effectively over the last few hundred years is to be a de facto state-church organisation, a protestant land for a protestant people. I wonder how many of the Unionists sitting in Stormont 1921-1972 were Orangemen? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_Northern_Ireland#Brief_history).
Interesting point there DP, if memory serves me right I believe there was a great pipe band scene in Belfast once upon a time.
DeleteVery interesting and enjoyable read. I have often wondered what way the folk music scene is in Northern Ireland (as opposed to the horrendous rebel "trad" bands who usually play to a certain type north and south of the border). There is a strong connection between Scottish and Irish folk bands, and I would seriously doubt it's a Catholic thing!
ReplyDeleteMany Scottish folk songs and tunes are staples of the Irish folk scene as well. Is there a scene up in the north?
There was a programme on RTE a while back up in Ulster which featured a fluent Gaelic speaking Protestant priest who played folk fiddle from what I recall. He went back to university as a mature student to learn Gaelic, and was a keen folk fiddle player. Very refreshing to see a break from the Bryson type stereotype we're more used to seeing on the news down Mexico way.
Hello Barry
DeleteYes your right, it's not a 'Catholic thing' per se but in the eyes of Brysonites and people like him that is entirely how it is regarded, the stuff of 'themuns'.
My Grandfather (mentioned earlier) also played the fiddle amongst many other instruments usually to the (Protestant) village folk at to gatherings, there was simply no perception back then of it being a nationalist thing.
Something suddenly changed somewhere along the line.
It is an interesting topic but I fear that the rabbit hole may run so very very deep.
So, is there a folk music scene in Northern Ireland that would involve everyone. Again, I can only relate to what I know of the folk scene down south, and it usually involves just playing tunes or songs which originate in Ireland, Scotland, England, Australia and North America.
DeleteYou would usually have a mix of Irish, and to a lesser extent, Scottish, English, American, and continental Europeans drifting in and out.
So, from my point of view I would see it as quite neutral? Andy Irvine, of Planxty, is English born, and has brought in a lot of old English folk songs to the Irish scene over the last 30 or 40 years.
You only have to look at the Celtic Connections festival in Scotland to see the link with Ireland and Scotland, and again, it's not a "Catholic" thing. Heck, Caledonia is one of the most popular folk songs in Ireland. They all go mad for it! I don't think Dougie MacLean is a Caflick.
How are a band like The Pogues received in Northern Ireland? I would consider them an Anglo-Irish folk band. James Fearnley's book is worth a read actually. He was born in Manchester, moved to London, joined the Pogues, and his first tour was to Ireland north and south, in the 1980s.
On a side note, how are/were bands like Oasis and The Smiths received in Ireland? What would a loyalist think of Noel Gallagher, of southern Irish stock holding a union fleg guitar! What about The Smiths. I would think of them as a classic British band, and Oasis too. But they happen to be of Irish decent. Which doesn't really mean anything I suppose. Would they be considered a bunch of "taigs"?
I would then turn it around, and ask what you think of Snow Patrol, Therapy? and Ash getting nominated for Irish music awards, when at the same time, they could be getting nominated for British music awards?
"....you're right....", not your right.
DeleteNuts.
Very informative and thought provoking. Pity the closed minds will reject all of it without really stopping to think about what is being said. I feel that there is a difference still between the rural and the urban attitudes and the urban attitudes are the ones that are making the most noise and are the more readily listened to and thought to represent the prevailing attitude for all. A sad mistake I feel that skews things badly in wrong directions.
ReplyDeleteSuper bit of research. Very enjoyable read and regrettably more evidence to show sectarianism is spreading over our wee land like a cancer. Liked and shared ;)
ReplyDeleteMe aunty with her best friend in the 30's and 40's were cracking Irish dancers. On Saturday nights after playing all the music halls in Belfast they would go around the main orange halls as well. The orange halls, she says, were welcoming and considerate "of us wee lassies" being aware that they had a busy night already and made sure that they got home safely.
ReplyDeleteI'd be interested in looking more into this as part of a college dissertation if anyone could help me with contacts?
ReplyDelete